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By Request: Transcript
Trying to keep the new subscribers happy!
Photo by Andrew Ridley on Unsplash
Steward Ownership, continued
Hello and welcome to the new subscribers!
In response to last week’s newsletter about steward ownership, we got some requests for the English transcript of the (German) podcast episode I quoted from Karma Capital.
So, without further ado, here’s an edited version with Karma Capital’s co-founders Sebastian Klein and Theresa Böttger:
Theresa: So first of all, people might wonder: what exactly is Karma Capital?
Sebastian: Well, our idea with Karma Capital is this: the world is facing massive and growing crises—climate crisis, crisis of democracy, inequality crisis, and many more. At the same time, there’s an incredible amount of private wealth and capital in the world. Surely it must be possible to use some of that money as part of the solution. That’s exactly what we want to do—or at least contribute to.
And one of the first topics we’re starting with is steward-ownership (Verantwortungseigentum). For us, it’s a way to make capital part of the solution.
Theresa: Exactly. Steward-ownership might be a new term for some listeners. From our perspective, it’s a very strong way to structure organizations and financing. It ensures that profits are tied to the company’s purpose. The company essentially owns itself. Because profits are purpose-bound, they’re guaranteed to serve the mission in the long run. That way, the company can survive, stay competitive, but the value remains with the people actually working to realize the vision.
Sebastian: Perfect. So, first question to you: we’ve known each other a little over a year now, and I’d love to hear again—how did you come to Karma? What were you doing before, what was your journey, and why are you doing this now?
Theresa: It’s been quite a long journey. I spent 15 years in the financial sector, most recently at DWS, Deutsche Bank’s asset management arm, where I worked mainly on shareholder value maximization—that was actually the topic of my Master’s thesis years ago. Over the years I had to unlearn a lot.
Sebastian: So you really played the game fully, from the inside.
Theresa: Exactly. I tried to squeeze more out of stocks and managed capital—even through so-called “sustainable equity funds.” I thought I could make a difference there, but I eventually realized it’s nearly impossible to achieve both high returns and real impact. Impact gets reduced to a few KPIs instead of true systemic change.
Meanwhile, monopolies swallow up startups with real purpose, killing innovation and vision. That’s dangerous for society and the economy. More monopolies, fewer solutions to our crises—it makes everything more fragile. So, in my mid-30s, I decided to quit the winner-takes-all game and look for a better way.
Sebastian: And at that point, you were still in the full Frankfurt banking lifestyle. What was that like?
Theresa: Not as extreme as investment banking, but still very status- and money-driven. Your identity revolves around hierarchy, team size, compensation. It’s really hard to break out of that world because no one around you questions it. It took me two years to step away.
Sebastian: And then you quit your 250 m² loft in Frankfurt and moved to a shared flat in Berlin.
Theresa: (laughs) Pretty much. I had my rooftop terrace with a skyline view, but realized it wasn’t fulfilling. So I swapped it for a building with 90 doorbells and started the On Purpose program to explore social entrepreneurship—purpose over profit.
Sebastian: And what was the program like for you?
Theresa: That’s where I first encountered steward-ownership. I worked for a startup with that structure and saw how differently they deal with investors. Returns are capped, the company owns itself—totally different mindset. It made me realize there’s a huge gap: lots of demand for capital, but hardly any investors willing to work that way.
That year was a massive learning journey for me; about steward-ownership, social entrepreneurship, and regenerative economics.
Sebastian: For me, the starting point was my own entrepreneurial journey. When I earned money, I didn’t buy houses. I reinvested in my own startups or others I believed in. Many were steward-owned, which I saw as a potential solution to inequality and ecological crises.
When Blinkist exited in 2023, I suddenly had more private wealth. I decided to put much of it into building Karma Capital. Together with my brother Nikolaus, a lawyer, we structured Karma as a hybrid of non-profit and steward-ownership. Our idea was to use capital to create systemic positive effects.
We chose to start with what we knew: steward-ownership. Our plan was to launch a fund investing specifically in steward-owned firms.
Theresa: Maybe explain quickly why steward-ownership is the right legal form for you as an investor?
Sebastian: In my earlier startups, shares went to founders and later to VCs. The focus became maximizing return through exit or IPO. That dynamic clashed with my values. Investors cared only about returns—not people, not purpose.
Steward-ownership was an experiment: What if control stays with the company, shares can’t be traded, and profits aren’t speculative? It removes the “lottery ticket” mentality of getting rich. At Neue Narrative, for example, employees who’ve worked a year become part of the owners’ circle. When they leave, control stays with those still working there.
Investors can still earn capped returns, but they don’t get voting rights. That allows companies to genuinely follow their purpose, not just as marketing.
Theresa: From our fund’s perspective, the ownership structure itself is transformative. Other impact funds optimize subsystems; we aim to systemically transform venture capital by changing ownership incentives.
Sebastian: Media is another focus for me. After Blinkist, I co-founded Neue Narrative, a steward-owned media company about “New Work.” Through that I realized: strong media is essential for democracy. Yet journalism is underfunded, while startups making trivial products get millions.
So we also started working on media funding. In 2023, Karma co-founded the Media Forward Fund with foundations, pooling philanthropic money to support independent media. Now we’re building an investment side too.
Theresa: Right, and that’s part of Karma’s Poly-Capital Approach: using different forms of capital—philanthropy, low-return investments, for-profit—depending on the problem. Not just one kind of money.
Sebastian: This year, I want to see our two funds—steward-ownership and media—get off the ground. They’ll also help us learn how to do better. And we want to share our insights openly, so others can copy and join. Changing the financial system needs many allies.
Theresa: Exactly. I hope we can be a contact point for people who want to act differently with their money. There’s so much capital in circulation—we want to help direct it toward transformation.
Sebastian: And of course, we need many more “Theresas”—people willing to leave the old system and bring their expertise to the new.
Theresa: For me, the vision is to grow this niche of steward-ownership and systemic investing so it becomes significant—like impact investing did in the last decade. If by 2035 it’s 10% or more of venture capital, that would be huge.
Sebastian: And part of strengthening the field is telling inspiring stories. That’s why we’ve invited founders to share their journeys on this podcast.
Theresa: I’m also excited to eventually speak with policymakers, academics, and investors who are brave enough to invest without chasing maximum returns.
Sebastian: If we can show that capital can be a positive force for transformation—even if financial returns are lower—that’s my biggest hope.
Theresa: Because otherwise, the tipping points will pass us by, and it’ll be too late to turn money into a future.
Sebastian: Exactly. Waiting another ten years for “Impact Lite” will be something we regret. I don’t want to look back at retirement age and realize I knew better but kept playing the old game.
Theresa: That’s what I admire in you, and what we need more of: people bold enough to use their capital for real change.
What we do
Here are some of the previous editions:
Introducing Kollo Media: “Let’s Really Look at the Thing”
Announcing our first audiobook and thoughts on the audiobook market
Considering Dan Hicks’s writing and drinking out of a skull
Thanks for following along so far. We appreciate your support.